Guest post by Private Tom
Cross-posted at ☮ is my religion
Andrew Bolt has officially crossed that thin line that divides the controversial and the batsh*t insane:
Catholics believe in Armageddon and the fires of hell. So do global warming believers.
Uh..no. Just-gah, this statement is so full of wingnuttery, no wonder Bolta refused to give any links to his strawman environazis-they don’t exist.
Catholics believe we must repent our sins to be saved. So do global warming believers.
No, you troll. Environmentalists think that we need to drastically cut our emissions on a global level to avert the worst of climate change. That has sweet f*ck all to do with ‘sinning’, which is a religious concept of personal immorality.
Catholics believe love of money is the root of evil. So do global warming believers, only they called money “industrialisation”.
This is so ridiculous it’s almost self-parodying: Bolt has painted conservationists with a brush almost the size of Brendoc’s forehead. I’m a “global warming believer” and I see bigotry and greed as the roots of evil-not industrialisation. Perhaps you’d like to explain why, if greenies are so anti-technology, the Greens are so supportive of more advanced renewable technology? I won’t hold my breath.
UPDATE: Apologies to the readers below who are offended by the comparison. You are right: Catholicism is indeed more rational and benign than the green faith, and doesn’t demand forcible conversion.
OK, that is self-parodying. Why don’t you name 10 people who have been “forcibly converted” to environmentalism? And benign? Like opposing both abortion and contraception despite that policy committing genocide against African women? Compared to campaigning for increasing international to developing nations (CLEARLY SUPPORTING INDUSTRIALISATION)?
F*ck off Andrew. Your pathetic attempts at smearing environmentalists are becoming more ludicrous everyday. BTW, the CEC called; your member’s registration needs renewal.
UPDATE: W.O. Michelle B. Button cross-posts this, and raises some excellent points:
* Catholicism demands conversion unless you want to be judged for all eternity in Hell.
* Tell the kids who have been molested by priests that Catholicism is benign. Tell the people who have been killed in the name of the religion.
* Catholicism is based on a book which, if it weren’t for the mass support in it’s Truth, would be found squarely in the Fantasy section of the bookstore.
* There is no scientific basis for Catholicism
* Catholicism wants you to believe that there is a guy in the sky who created it all and controls many aspects of the lives of people on earth.
Yep, Catholicism is totally rational.
Bolt is just a troll.
“Catholics believe in Armageddon and the fires of hell. So do global warming believers.”
He considers George Pell a friend too, regardless of the fact that he’s wrong about people that believe in AGW, he’s a hypocrite, ie he wont dis Pell, in fact he’ll go to great lengths to defend him.
Is he saying that Catholics are fine but AGW advocates are nuts?
I wonder why he doesn’t stick the boot into Tony Abbot more often considering he erroneously believes that Tony believes the same things as the ‘AGWers” and that he mistakenly believes that anyone who is an advocate of AGW must be insane..
Oh that’s right – Tony Abbot is a hardcore Right winger and therefore he can do no wrong in the blinkered eyes of Andrew Bolt..
Apart from being an utter hypocrite Bolt is also totally wrong about so many issues he posts on his blog.
But yeah, he eventually sticks up for people who’s beliefs have no basis whatsoever in science whilst continuing to stick the boot into AGWers who regardless of whether they are right or wrong base their beliefs on available science – not fairy stories.
like i said months ago he is becoming more and more alarmist every time he posts on agw. when the ets comes in he will be irrelevent just like he is with stolen generation now goverment has said sorry.
You guys are missing the point of Bolt’s rant. He’s not trying to suggest that any of the characteristics he’s describing are intrinsically negative – he’s a big fan of Catholocism after all. He’s simply trying to show that being an AGW believer is an equally religious position to that of being a Catholic (or indeed any religious denomination).
This piece of his is what I like to call “a pre-emptive link setup” whereby he postures on about some rubbish or another simply so he can link to it in future. In a few months time (when he’s blogging again) Bolt will make an offhand remark about how it’s already ‘accepted’ that AGW is a religion, and he’ll link to this piece as his evidence.
Nobody likes to quote themselves as authority for their own position quite as much as Bolt does.
Bolt as a Christian uses Faith to defend his religion but then accuses the Green movement of having blind faith. Hisy hypocrisy is breath takeing
“He’s simply trying to show that being an AGW believer is an equally religious position to that of being a Catholic (or indeed any religious denomination).”
Which may work for the Boltards, but to the wider world it just highlights his hypocrisy and his obvious confusion between science and religion.
Bolt as a Christian uses Faith to defend his religion but then accuses the Green movement of having blind faith. Hisy hypocrisy is breath takeing
Bolt is not a christian. he considers himeself to be agnostic. he doesn’t follow any of the religions.
“Bolt as a Christian uses Faith to defend his religion but then accuses the Green movement of having blind faith. Hisy hypocrisy is breath takeing”
I’m pretty sure that Bolt declared on Q&A that he is not a Christian or of any faith.
I might add – I agree with your post Mondo (“a pre-emptive link setup” – LOL) I just can’t resist the opportunity to stick it to Bolt ;o)
My bad, he always seams to defend so called christian values so I asumed he was a Christian. But he does defend one form of faith while attacking the green movement over what he considers is a environment religious faith.
Which may work for the Boltards, but to the wider world it just highlights his hypocrisy and his obvious confusion between science and religion.
That much is undoubtedly true. Whilst his flock of hangers on think this kind of commentary is cutting and insightful I’m hopeful that the general population sees it for what it is – a desperately reaching argument that has little connection to reality.
Bolt’s biggest problem is that his commentary has now become so transparently biased, one-eyed and deceptive that it only appeals to people who already agree with him.
Mondo – You are correct on the pre-emptive link post.
It will be used time and time again linked back like the 100m sea rise, name just ten etc etc.
He often uses a post like this to test the water to see how the readers react to the suggested argument. He will then refine the piece further until he is happy enough to use it as a column.
That is why at times I wonder if he (or moderators) post in his blog or others to see what kind of reaction there may be. Especially when bringing an argument about religion into it. If you read the comments in the thread after the post it is pretty scattered.
“That is why at times I wonder if he (or moderators) post in his blog or others to see what kind of reaction there may be. ”
Barry Bones must be a plant – hardly ever defends himself but generates heaps of hostile responses thus is probably the most significant contributor to Andrew Bolt’s one million hits per month.
One of the reasons I wont post there, I have a dissenting point of view and attract enough hostility from the Boltards that I feel that in an indirect fashion I’m contributing to the wealth of a hypocritical, dog whistling prick!
You are all a bunch ; of leftists who can not see Andrew bolt for the gold-Like sage that he is. His bloging is a beacon of light unto the other, darker bloges trapped in the mire and who are always worshipping at the alter of the green religion.
The green religion is must exemplified by the Holden Prius, a car that has more battery and is heavier than a car less it’s total mass.
The problem is when you play your foot upon the velocitator and depress the engine throatal, the green wamistas will come and stencil your cab with graffito of the most exxotic kind.
“Iain Hall
15 September, 2008 at 3:02 pm”
gold like sage? worshipping at the alter of green religion? darker bloges? HOLDEN prius? feet playing on the velocitator? engine throatals?
is there anything about ian hall’s post that makes sense to non-boltards?
Oh dear – the experiment has escaped from the lab again.
confessions – I think Bolt took Iain with him off the deep end…..
Um… I know no one really cares but according to Catholic Dogma (and reiterated by Pope John Paul II) the idea that Catholicism demands conversion unless you want to be judged for all eternity in Hell is wrong. Can’t speak for the other 40,000 or so other christian religions and cults though.
If anyone actualy cares I can give you more details…
Not defending Bolt by the way, I think he’s a complete ‘tard. I’m just pedantic by nature.
The more time we spend trying to figure out how Bolt can be as stupid as he is, the stupider we get. By even reading the simplistic, stupid crap the man writes, we waste time we could be spending learning new things that will help us and our communities.
The less time we all spend thinking about bolt the better off we will all be.
“The less time we all spend thinking about bolt the better off we will all be.”
The most sensible thing yet posted on this site.
He dare not apply this wrong-headed comparison to Zionism.
The Catholics go: ‘meh, whatever bolty-face.’
The Zionists get far more ‘active’ if looked at askance.
(yes, neither Zionism nor AGW are ‘religions’, that’s the point).
Is AB really on holidays?
Or is he speech-writing for ‘MrSpinelessOhJohnnyDidntGiveMeTheGigWhenIReallyWantedItAndGeezIsnt60MinutesSuchACredibleProgramToHelpMeReinforceMyHatred4TheLittleLegSpinnerWannabeAndHisDragonOfAWife’ Costello
Official?
One suggests, if one might be so bold, that the laws of liable and defamation are at serious risk here unless that is Mr Private Tom is suitably qualified (i.e. he is Dr. Private Tom)to make the finding, has examined Mr. Bolt and has Mr. Bolt’s written permission to post the finding here.
Under those circumstances I’d be wrong of course.
Yes, because Private Tom is undeniably talking about a mental illness. In fact, I can’t believe the Herald Sun is taking advantage of his illness, and using it to generate clickies and sell papers!
Now “it’s official”??
I thought that had happened last year.
Another anti-science shill, Jennifer Maharosy, has also been pushing the same environmentalism = religion line.
“Bolt’s biggest problem is that his commentary has now become so transparently biased, one-eyed and deceptive that it only appeals to people who already agree with him.”
And yet you all read him.
EVERY
WORD
EVERY
DAY!!!!!!!
“One of the reasons I wont post there, I have a dissenting point of view and attract enough hostility from the Boltards that I feel that in an indirect fashion I’m contributing to the wealth of a hypocritical, dog whistling prick!”
So instead you read every post and all Bolt’s threads and come here to comment. Where you’re not the dissenting point of view and attract only filatio offers from the other conservocidal gentle folk gathered.
Can we please get back to posts only from the three guys who run this site, especially Jeremy? Boltwatch used to be witty. Jeremy also understood that a lot of people have different opinions about things, and when attacking one fallacy there was no point trying to alienate or denigrate everyone who has any different beliefs about anything. In other words, he had some idea of what persuasion involves. Now, in by far the worst of an increasingly bad series of guest posts, we see:
- Guest poster takes one of the oldest, most-used, most written-about anti-AGW tropes — that is resembles a religion — and goes into spasms of outrage that anyone could say such a thing.
- Guest poster then meticulously shows that belief in AGW is not, in fact, a religion. Please, Guest poster, google the term “straw man.”
- Guest poster recites the litany of late-high school complaints against the Catholic Church. I bet they were really shocked when you told them that in chapel.
- A commenter accuses Bolt of being a Christian. The Horror. Someone pointed out that he declared his non-Christianity on Q&A. He has also declared it ad nauseum in his online writings. How was anyone not aware of this?
- Other commenters (I notice none of the site’s actual writers touched this one) are in such a lather of anti-Clerical righteousness that they believe an obvious parody of Iain Hall to be Iain Hall. The term “velocitator” (a Mr Burns reference) should have given it away.
This site is going downhill fast and it would be better abandoned than turned over to guest posters like this one. I miss Jeremy.
“So instead you read every post and all Bolt’s threads and come here to comment. ”
No I don’t, try again…….
“He has also declared it ad nauseum in his online writings. How was anyone not aware of this?”
Because regardless of Iry’s clownish assumptions, I for one don’t read Bolt that much….
“How was anyone not aware of this?”
I was aware, read the thread! Want to post some facts rather than gross generalisations?
” It’s official “???? LOL………….Andy lost it a long long time ago.
Who remembers ” we’ve won ” when talking about the Iraq war, We’ve won ( according to Bolt ) at lease 15 times now.
Or that dead baby found in a ” green ” shopping bag, so what does Bolt do?…put the boot into the ” green religion ”
Or Bolts’ stupid name one ( it’s since gone to name 10 )
No i’m affraid he has lost it a long time ago. ( along with his sheep )
RobJ, I know you were aware. I mentioned your response to Daryl’s carefully-considered musings. When I said “how was anyone not aware of this?” I was asking how anyone who sees fit to comment on Bolt’s alleged religious convictions couldn’t have noticed that nearly every time he defends Christianity, he mentions that he’s not a Christian. That’s not the same as asking “How was everyone not aware of this?” which would imply that no-one here knows.
“I was asking how anyone who sees fit to comment on Bolt’s alleged religious convictions couldn’t have noticed that nearly every time he defends Christianity,”
Maybe you’re making the same false assumption that Iry made,? You know, anyone who posts here reads:
“EVERY
WORD
EVERY
DAY!!!!!!!”
If you’re not a regular reader of Bolt or an avid watcher of Q&A it would be quite forgivable to believe that Andrew Bolt is a Christian, he’s a fan of both Tony Abbot and George Pell after all.
He’s also a fan of G W Bush who is a bible thumper…
“Other commenters (I notice none of the site’s actual writers touched this one) are in such a lather of anti-Clerical righteousness that they believe an obvious parody of Iain Hall to be Iain Hall. The term “velocitator” (a Mr Burns reference) should have given it away.”
who the fuck is ian hall? is the name meant to mean something to the normal amongst us? and because the name means nothing to me ecxept for some twat who commented above how the hell would i recognise a ‘parody’ of someone i don’t know? but i agree with comments about jeremy, when is he back?
didn’t i read here once from a bolt sheep that agw is nothing but a conspiracy to get communism back again? the most deluded of all belief i have seen in relation to agw.
Iain Hall was a stream-of-consciousness-posting troll who got so incensed by Jeremy’s Boltwatch that he started his own “MrLeftywatch” blog. The name will definitely mean something to longer-term readers around here. Grods refers to Bolt on their blogroll as “the thinking man’s Iain Hall.” The comment above does capture some of his stylistic tics quite nicely, but if you can’t recognize what is “obvious parody” in the last paragraph then I fear the hallucinatory terrors that await you if ever you see an episode of the Chaser or the Colbert Report.
It’s not asking too much of someone that they know about Bolt’s religious views (as opposed to his political views about religion) before they make bold proclamations about them. Or that someone should be able to understand that you can admire Christians without being a Christian, as any non-Christian supporter of Barack Obama or non-Hindu fan of Gandhi could work out.
Hope everyone watched the man of the people last night on ACA commenting that the “public have been ripped off by toll roads for too long”?
I found it personally amusing that the ‘trial’ ACA completed resulted in the tollways taking longer thus debunking Bolt’s conspiracy. I wont make any comment on the merits of the test itself but it was funny to see the guy bleat about needing public spending on arterial roads only to have the driver on the public roads make it quicker.
“if you can’t recognize what is “obvious parody” in the last paragraph then I fear the hallucinatory terrors that await you if ever you see an episode of the Chaser or the Colbert Report.”
nope still don’t know who ian hall is or recognise the obvious parody in his last para. guess i’d better lock myself away inside in case the chaser ever make it back to my tv screen to use hallucinatory methods with which to terrorise me.
“It’s not asking too much of someone that they know about Bolt’s religious views (as opposed to his political views about religion) before they make bold proclamations about them. ”
this thread is about bolt comparing agw belief with religious belief in this case catholics. i neither know nor care what religious faith if any bolt believes in. but back to the topic, it’s not asking too much of our ‘journalists’ that they are able to recognise the difference between a faith-based belief system with no grounding in scientific fact with a science based acknowledgement that the planet is warming and human activity is more than likely responsible for it. more specifically it is only the denialists like him who who are shrieking about hairshirts and living like medeival monks in shunning electricity and the conveniences of modern life. alarmism that would make the most fervant catholics proud.
“Hope everyone watched the man of the people last night on ACA”
i had to wash my hair.
;-)
“Or that someone should be able to understand that you can admire Christians without being a Christian,”
He admires Christians and Jews but allows bullshit to be posted about Muslims, look at Gordon of Perth’s dog whistle about Sharia Islamic law in the UK in the “let’s kiss our hero’s butt and wish him well for his ‘long deserved break’” (page 8).
“England is not going to drag Muslims kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Muslims are going to drag England (not kicking, not screaming, not even whimpering) back into the 7th century. What a crock of bigoted shit!”
Gordon goes about with his ignorant vilification of the UK and it’s acceptance of Sharia ARBITRATION (NB arbitration of CIVIL cases), completely ignoring the FACT that Jews have enjoyed the same conditions under UK law for over 100 years, with Beth Din courts.
Clearly Gordon doesn’t believe that UK Muslims should be allowed to enjoy then same conditions under UK law as UK Jews. He is a BIGOT.
BTW Gordon, if you’re reading, no I wont respond to your post at Bolt’s, there’s no point, it would probably be censored by the biased moderators that do an appalling job of moderating at Andrew Bolt’s daily dog whist……errr I mean blog.
Anyway, back on topic. It would be easy to forgive somebody for believing that Bolt is a Christian, considering he sucks up to famous Christians.
I wont make any comment on the merits of the test itself but it was funny to see the guy bleat about needing public spending on arterial roads only to have the driver on the public roads make it quicker.
Are you for real!?
Arterial Roads are public roads. Not all arterial roads have tolls. The Monash FWY used in the Melbourne test on ACA only becomes tolls after Toorak road. From the east link interchange to Toorak road, there are no tolls.
I found it personally amusing that the ‘trial’ ACA completed resulted in the tollways taking longer thus debunking Bolt’s conspiracy.
The story on ACA was seriously flawed. The Victorian government is currently doing a $1 billion upgrade of the whole M1 arterial* from the Westgate bridge to east link. What this means is that most of the road has reduced speeds while road works are being done. The reduced speeds are on the Freeway sections of this arterial.
Bolt was not commenting on Toll road’s verses Fwys or presenting any conspiracy theories.
Bolt’s point was to attack the Vic government’s upgrade of this road saying that they are only adding 1 extra lane either way, when a min of 2 extra lanes each way are needed. Bolt was saying that the governments upgrade is already out of date before the work is even finished.
*The M1 is actually a mixture of tolls and fwy.
LOL – Turnbull won, that’ll upset the Boltards…..
He admires Christians and Jews but allows bullshit to be posted about Muslims, look at Gordon of Perth’s dog whistle about Sharia Islamic law in the UK in the “let’s kiss our hero’s butt and wish him well for his ‘long deserved break’”
And you think that allowing Sharia law in a western secular society is a good thing?
Ooooh look – It’s the resident legal eagle – The one who claims that racist remarks aren’t racist remarks.
What legal advice (read: thinly veiled idiotic threats) do you have for me today???
I told you before Rad, I’m finished with you, I won’t engage you in ‘debate’ because your full of shit!!! You’re a troll, why are you still wasting keystrokes?
Ooooh look – It’s the resident legal eagle – The one who claims that racist remarks aren’t racist remarks.
You wish. The problem is that you confuse political correctness with racism. For example. Being opposed to Sharia law is not racism just like commenting on the negative aspects of a particular culture.
Gordon goes about with his ignorant vilification of the UK and it’s acceptance of Sharia ARBITRATION (NB arbitration of CIVIL cases),
What’s really bad about this is the rights of Muslim women living in the UK. They will no be afforded the same rights as non-Muslim women in civil cases.
The whole comparison between the catholic faith and AGW ‘believers’ is ridiculous.
However, I do think Andrews AGW denier/skeptic stance is far more of a faith based position than that of the majority of people who are concerned with the potential dangers of AGW.
Most of us here, i imagine, are willing to take at face value the majority of scientific opinion on AGW. That being that it is probably happening and that we are 90% sure we are to blame. It is a matter of erring on the side of caution and is, in fact, quite a conservative point of view.
Andrews belief that GW is not happening is based on the research of a small minority (loony fringe) of scientists, many of whom are on the ‘big oil’ payroll and others who have been misquoted or taken out of context by Bolt.(*)
So a science based, conservative and rational argument for erring on the side of caution, held by the majority of Australians on the one hand…
…and on the other, a small minority of people who believe that AGW is a scam for greenies to get rich in the ‘green economy’, then redistribute our newfound wealth through that communist plot of emmissions trading, all of this so that we can close down all our industry, destroy our countries economy and live in teepees in the forest, worshipping gaia by sacrificing babies in green shopping bags.
(BTW, Al gore is fat)
WTF! I am constantly amazed at the contradicting points of view these retards are able to hold.
(*) Dr. Jeff Severinghaus, “Bolt misrepresented my research” http://www.abc.net.au/rn/scienceshow/stories/2007/1867444.htm
The whole comparison between the catholic faith and AGW ‘believers’ is ridiculous.
However, I do think Andrews AGW denier/skeptic stance is far more of a faith based position than that of the majority of people who are concerned with the potential dangers of AGW
That’s comedy Gold. Do you realise what you have just done DbD?
Andrews belief that GW is not happening is based on the research of a small minority (loony fringe) of scientists, many of whom are on the ‘big oil’ payroll and others who have been misquoted or taken out of context by Bolt.(
You are wrong DbD. Bolt has never disputed Climate change. He disputes that CO2 (AGW) is the cause.
You will find that most of us that are AGW Skeptics accept that climate change is a normal part of the earth climate. What we are sceptical of is that the climate change which has been experienced over the last century is cause by human activity.
“It is a matter of erring on the side of caution and is, in fact, quite a conservative point of view.”
Exactly! I’m a sceptic, I’m not a scientist, I defer to their greater knowledge and experience, hence I choose to err on the caution and support cuts in emissions.
Yes – to dismiss the majority of science and claim that there is absolutely no GW is a leap of faith similar to that required for following a religion even though there is no evidence that that religion is right (or that any religion is right).
There you have it, as pointed out by DbD, Andrew Bolt has it arse backward, it’s the DENIERS that are more akin to the religious.
“Andrews belief that GW is not happening is based on the research of a small minority (loony fringe) of scientists,”
Fair do’s, Andrew is the loony fringe as are many of the sycophants that frequent his blog, he’s just serving his audience ;o) – the sooner they realise that Australia has rejected the loony right fringe (hence Turnbull’s election today – and that most Aussies support an ETS (rational people erring on the side of caution)) the sooner they’ll find peace of mind.
Exactly! I’m a sceptic, I’m not a scientist, I defer to their greater knowledge and experience, hence I choose to err on the caution and support cuts in emissions.
Do you even know what the word sceptical means?
You cannot be a sceptic of AGW if you blatantly accept that climate change is caused by human activity. To be a sceptic od AGW you have to be open to the concept that the current climate change that we are experiencing is caused by natural factors.
Anyone who states the following is clearly REJECTING any concept that AGW is not happening;
There you have it, as pointed out by DbD, Andrew Bolt has it arse backward, it’s the DENIERS that are more akin to the religious
You calling yourself a climate change sceptic is comedy gold from a person who clearly doesn’t know what a sceptic is.
Your rantings remind me of the rantings of a creationist who is convinced that creationism is science.
RadP – Your post about the M1 was partially correct. The upgrade actually includes the bridge itself and extends past eastlink to Heatherdale Rd.
I did not know that Bolt was a traffic modeller with experience in major arterial roads and freeways???
RadP – You should also note that there are reduced speeds along at locations along the entire length of the monash freeway and southern link sections to allow the roadworks.
I wonder how Bolt is going to fit the extra two lanes into the tunnels? Being a transport expert that he is to comment about it.
I did not know that Bolt was a traffic modeller with experience in major arterial roads and freeways???
He’s not.
But I do agree with him that the planned upgrades of the M1 will not be sufficient to alleviate the peak hour traffic problems. Especially those experienced from the western suburbs.
I know a lot of people that drive into the city along the M1 in both directions and most of them are sceptical that the planned upgrades will make any difference. I don’t understand why the Vic gov is only adding 1 extra lane when it seems that more are needed.
I just found ACA’s story a joke. It was very Today Tonight.
RadP – So how are you going to fit those extra lanes over the westgate bridge?
His comments were a joke. If they wanted a valued opinion they should have asked a peak motoring body who has a clue like the RACV rather than someone who lives in Hawthorn and probably doesnt use the toll roads anyway.
RadP – So how are you going to fit those extra lanes over the westgate bridge?
They can expand the bridge ant the tunnels.
The vic government has to do something. The public transport network is a joke and their arterial road upgrade is lacking.
ACA’s story was about roads so Bolt’s comments were right.
If they wanted a valued opinion they should have asked a peak motoring body who has a clue like the RACV rather than someone who lives in Hawthorn and probably doesnt use the toll roads anyway.
Of course they should have, but it’s not Bolt’s fault that they did. You need to direct this sort of criticism at the produces of ACA.
Maybe if ACA focused their story on all transport then Bolt may have said more. What was a joke was that Bolt’s comment was put into the story as a neat little sound bite. We have no idea what question he was answering.
For all we know ACA might have asked him what he thought of Melbourne’s M1 upgrades.
Dave:
“- Guest poster takes one of the oldest, most-used, most written-about anti-AGW tropes — that is resembles a religion — and goes into spasms of outrage that anyone could say such a thing.”
That wasn’t outrage. This* is outrage.
- Guest poster then meticulously shows that belief in AGW is not, in fact, a religion. Please, Guest poster, google the term “straw man.”
From Wikipedia:
“A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position. To “set up a straw man,” one describes a position that superficially resembles an opponent’s actual view, yet is easier to refute, then attributes that position to the opponent.”
Dave, check this:
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_green_slayer_is_after_your_children/
Tell me that isn’t a strawman.
“- Guest poster recites the litany of late-high school complaints against the Catholic Church. I bet they were really shocked when you told them that in chapel.”
Whilst ignoring my statement: that the “benign” Vatican’s RH policies are killing African women and children.
*http://pacifistgrodssoldier.blogspot.com/2008/07/scum-in-human-form.html
Well RadP – I can put you in the same group with Bolt as commenting on something you know little about?
Andrew should ask why he is being put on such stories rather than just trying to get his head on the box every week. He looked like an ass commenting on what he knows little about.
He looked like an ass commenting on what he knows little about.
You have no idea of the question he was answering so we really don’t know what he was really commenting on.
All we know is that his comment was turned into a sound byte and added to a story about nothing. We don’t even know if it was taken from a recent interview.
ACA has a history adding old sound bytes of previously interview people to newly rehashed stories. A good example is every time they do a story about the dodgy tenant or tradesperson they add sound bytes for similar stories they did 5 years ago.
But it had to be recent Rad because as you said he was talking about adding two lanes rather than one.
He should do his research (would take him 5 mins) and find out why adding 2 lanes is such a stupid idea.
“There you have it, as pointed out by DbD, Andrew Bolt has it arse backward, it’s the DENIERS that are more akin to the religious.”
not too mention the hysterical claims about living in caves, having to give up electricity, jobs going, the economy going to rack and ruin. it has ALWAYS been the outright denialists who are the religious nutters. the more we here about the ets and climate change the more frenzied they become. how many posts did bolt have on climate change when that garnaut green paper first came out? he was beside himself with anxiety, practically shrieking with hysteria about the issue. no wonder he needed a holiday.
But it had to be recent Rad because as you said he was talking about adding two lanes rather than one
The upgrade of the M1 has been in the public domain for 2 years. When they announced the upgrade I remember having similar talks with friends over the inadequacy of only adding 1 extra lane.
He should do his research (would take him 5 mins) and find out why adding 2 lanes is such a stupid idea
Once again you have no idea what the nature of the question was.
It is true that the extra lane will not solve the peak hour traffic problems on the M1. Basically, that was the contention of Bolt’s comment, that the upgrade is already out of date before the upgrade is finished.
Radp – “It is true that the extra lane will not solve the peak hour traffic problems on the M1″
And what do you base this on? Your traffic modelling experience?
And what do you base this on? Your traffic modelling experience
My commuting experience.
I have lived and commuted from the western suburbs along the M1 and the eastern suburbs along the M1 in the last 4 years.
The western suburbs of Melbourne have a fraction of the population that live in the east, yet the western M1 has 4 lanes and horrendous traffic problems in peak hour.
The extra lane out to the eastern suburbs will take what is 3 lanes to 4. The same amount of traffic lanes as the west.
Now it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realise that if the western suburbs can’t cope with 4 lanes then how can the eastern suburbs with a much larger population. Especially now east link has opened causing increased traffic inflow from the north east (Ringwood) and south east (Frankston).
BTW DBoP, have you ever commuted into the city via the M1 from the eastern suburbs?
RadP – commuting experience?? nice
I have worked on the M1 since it had traffic lights and was called the south eastern car park. That is 1994 for your information. Since then I have worked on a few small road projects such as Eastlink and now the Westgate Freeway upgrade.
Of course my commuting experience is limited to about 4 years on the M1, CityLink, Westgate and Western Link.
I apologise if i cannot comment with any merit on the topic.
To let you know it is not just extra lanes that help the situation. The issue is friction from people needing to change lanes. Compare the tulla-calder interchange to a couple of years ago.
You can build the M1 20 lanes wide and it still wont help anyone get on or off or get through the bottlenecks of the tunnels or over the westgate.
The issue is friction from people needing to change lanes. Compare the tulla-calder interchange to a couple of years ago
I have noticed that they are upgrading the way the bolty bridge connects to kings way, elevating a lot of the lane changing on the M1 between these exits and entrances.
Now this may improve things on that section of the M1 but I am just sceptical that this will have any impact in the trouble spots further out, like the traffic crawl from the western ringroad to the bridge in the west and the crawl from warrigal rd to Toorak rd in the east.
The problem is that Melbourne’s far outer east (City of Casey) and far outer west (City of Wyndham) along the M1 are the fastest growing regions of Melbourne. Given that the state government is claiming limitations on public transport upgrades, they need to do something fast as the natural progression is that most of the people in these growth areas will flow onto the M1 as their main route for getting to work.
Eleviating should be alleviating
now that the libs have called a leadership spill and costello didnt put his hat in i hope andy will finally let the whole costello thing go now. he’s been just as much in denial about costello as he has about agw.
and should it be bolte bridge as well rad?
and should it be bolte bridge as well rad
Yes. Spell check can do weird things at times
i don’t normally point out spell errors (for obvious reason!), but ‘bolty’ just looked wrong.
Like I sad earlier, the Boltards should recognise the election of Turnbull for what it is, a rejection of the extreme right, a rejection of the politics of sticking the boot into the disenfranchised, a la John Howard.
Maybe now they’ll begin to realise that they are in a minority and Australia generally speaking despise the politics of hate and lies as espoused by John Howard…
The Liberals only hope is to attack Rudd from the left – If Turnbull gets his way and leads to the next election then there will be hardly any difference between the two major parties, this suits me, I doubt Turnbull will be such an arse kisser of the US Prez as John Howard was, I know Turnbull has better ‘green’ credentials than Nelson, Turnbull is a republican, whilst he comes across as a pompous git he is a self made man and he seems to me to be very smart…
At the last election apart from work choices the major difference to me was that John Howard (with his puppet Kevin (incompetent) Andrews) was all too happy to scapegoat anyone for political purposes. Prior to Haneef it was ‘Children Overboard’.
I hope we can put that awful episode behind us with the election of a strong willed moderate to the leadership of the Australian Liberal Party. I hope Turnbull will provide an effective opposition rather than the opportunistic oppose everything – appease the right of the party type opposition that Nelson was only too happy to do.
PS – Apart from ‘workchoices’ I’m not too dark on Costello either, he’s a Republican, he supported the signing of Kyoto and he would have supported saying ‘sorry’ to the indigenous Australians.
Those trouble spots between Willy Rd on the west side of the bridge and the tunnels (heading east) and the kingsway / montague / bolte / todd rd areas (heading west) are one of the main causes for congestion during peak times that cascades outwards. The traffic weaves are what are being removed taking the friction from the exit and entry ramps allowing the main carriageway to operate more freely.
they (vicroads and transurban) will be implementing a whole series of traffic management strategies on the freeway to make it work more effectively. But hey instead of making the road work better why not just put down a heap of black stuff and drive on it.
the project has never been intended to alleviate all of Melbourne’s traffic issues. It is the next step to keep things going before anything assoicated with the Eddington report can be implemented.
Of course Bolt knows better.
RobJ – Turnbull’s main issue is comig across as a pomous git. Hawke was the best at being able to associate with the electorate. Turnbull will need to make sure he can communicate without sounding like a ‘know it all’
It will be interesting to see how the ALP address him considering some of his viewpoints.
turnbull will be more of a problem for the alp than nelson was. if turnbull can get rid of the dead wood hanging off the opposition front bench (abbott, bronwyn bishop) we might see a return to a competent opposition. then again, like howard and peacock in the 80s this could go on for a decade with nelson and turnbull slugging it out.
“Turnbull will need to make sure he can communicate without sounding like a ‘know it all’”
Yeah, you’re right, he’s a capable guy and is probably educating himself right now on how he can relate to the “Howard Battler” or more recently the “Australian Working Family”
dead wood —— abbott, bronwyn bishop
Spot on confessions.
IMNSHO – Sound performers = Chris Pyne, Julie Bishop..
Re ACA: Bolt is changing his image if you haven’t noticed. Since his 7 reasons blog he has now been posting less about his denialism and more about linking to other peoples denialism.
I hope that Andrew can mellow out a little and tackle an issue like road tolls without stirring up the pitchforks and effigies crowd.
Good luck to him if he can make a positive difference instead of generating negatives all the time.
OT:
Remember all that vitriol and scorn heaped on Rudd for daring to talk about his upbringing and his hardships?
I reckon we’ll be seeing Andy and the Blairster attacking Turnbull with equal ferocity:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/malcolm-turnbull-wins-liberal-leadership-20080916-4hcr.html
Won’t we?
Malcolm “I’ve done it tough” Turnbull.
RJ,
Chris Pyne a “sound” performer?! Ironically, the thing I can’t stand about him is the *sound* that he makes. That affected nasally Downeresque private school whine is unbearable. And the Adelaide Advertiser gives him a regular column from which, if I attempt to read it, I can still hear his voice echoing in my head. Awful.
it’s already started with timmy. he attacks turnbull (and rudd) for being “millionaire prius owners.”
“That affected nasally Downeresque private school whine is unbearable.”
Yeah, DeanL, I know what you mean, I got over that though….
“And the Adelaide Advertiser gives him a regular column from which, if I attempt to read it, I can still hear his voice echoing in my head. Awful.”
LOL
“it’s already started with timmy. he attacks turnbull (and rudd) for being “millionaire prius owners.””
What is it with the right and their hate of success? ;o)
I wonder if Blair attacked Rudd when he had a Ford Territory?
Frankly, as a progressive liberal (small ‘l’) I think the elevation of Turnbull to leader in the current climate is one of the best things that’s happened to Australian politics for years.
Howard dragged this country so far to the right through naked politicking and propoganda – delivered in conjunction with compliant commentary and naked ideological barracking from media figures like Bolt, Henderson, Blair, Ackerman and Albrechtson – that Labor has been forced to follow and become the Liberal party of 15 years ago.
Despite being a fiscal conservative, Turnbull is a social ‘liberal’ and will easily wedge Rudd on this ground by pursuing centrist or even progressive positions on social and foreign policy. I’m very hopeful that this will move Australia’s political compass back to the ‘centre’.
From Blair:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/new-alcopops-sneak-around-tax/2008/09/15/1221330747912.html
One of the biggest players, Independent Distillers, told the Herald yesterday that it was about to launch Bolt, a “malternative” in three sweet flavours – raspberry, passionfruit and blueberry – designed to appeal to younger drinkers.
Some potential advertising slogans please…
mondo labor already occupy the centre, they got there when howard took the libs too the right. what turnbull will do is bring an end to the god awful howard years if he can get rid of abbott, minchin, costello and the other sycophant howard huggers who will continue to destablize turnbulls leadership if they stay there.
“Some potential advertising slogans please…”
you don’t have to look to far to see some shockers. i’m guessing andy wouldn’t appreciate this one:
“Bolt! Making young girls dance and drop their pants, since 2008.
Infidel Tiger (Reply)
Tue 16 Sep 08 (02:02pm)”
where’s the confected moral outrage from the morlistic right?
The Libs have taken the first step on their rehabilitation. The concern is that 41 of them still thought that Nelson was the way to go.
The interesting question is, how will the far-right fundies cope with Turnbulls liberalism, environmentalism and internationalism? I assume that he’s prepared to placate them to some degree, eg. pushing the economic critique of climate change policy.
Will they adopt the 80′s approach and launch an on-going war to topple the evil liberal? I’m not sure. Nelson doesn’t seem to have the kind of personal ambition that drove Howard to make the Liberals unelectable for as long as they were.
so now bernie slattery is stepping in for andy while he’s away.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/tuesday_forum/#commentsmore
today is weird: no more nelson, alcopops called bolt and blair and now bernie bolt.
confessions – don’t read the comments whatever you do.. The flock are bleating and expect more rabid comments over the next few weeks.
too late. i peeked.
i also googled bernie slattery and had a look at his usual blog – andy used to quote him a bit but i was never interested in clicking on a link to a blog especially one andy would provide. he’s another rightard tool i’m afraid who claim palin and mccain are REAL people with REAL stories that REAL people can identify with. honestly what is it with the right and their inflated sense of what is real?
Like DBD articulated, it has always been blatantly obvious that people like Bolt, and the denialist movement in general are the ones whose behaviour is the most cult-like, religious and evangelistic, extreme and alarmist.
This is easily observed by the wild tangents that the denialists engage in, dreaming up all sorts if unspeakably absurd caricatures and deranged paranoias regarding the intentions of those concerned about AGW, and delusions regarding the threats posed by to their own safety. The denialists also engage in complete absolutism and the rejection of science that challenges the dogma of the denialist church.
The denialist movement is also a belief system based almost completely on adherence to knee-jerked adherence to preconceived ideology, and one considerably motivated by convenient beliefs. It has all the hallmarks of a rigid dogmatic beliefs system, including the belief amongst its followers that their beliefs represent the sole voice of reason in a world of madness.
Nothing could be further from a description of scepticism.
There are certainly alarmists amongst those articulating concern for AGW, but the majority of people concerned about AGW, are every day rational people, concerned about what the majority of scientists are warning about, are not afflicted by ideology and doctrine too much to prevent them from adopting the normal, rational and common sense position that we should consider the health of the planet and our responsibilities to it.
Didn’t Blair originally claim that Global Warming doesn’t exist, eventually changing his stance to be less embarassing and admit it *does* exist but that Humans had nothing to do with it?
Maybe he should move to Texas with other redneck conservatives and succumb to ‘slight gusts of wind’ that tend to become more and more severe each year for no reason at all…
Andrew Bolt is a pathetic racist coward.
He has long argued against the whole stolen generations saga and that no Aboriginal children were stolen for racist reasons.Most sane people know full well Aboriginals have copped a raw deal since 1788 and that aboriginal children have been taken away from their families for all the wrong reasons. The Churchs have apologised long before kevin Rudd did the right thing. Andrew was being grilled by Micheal Mansell and Tracy Grimshaw on Channel 9′s ACA when he stated that wrongs had been commited against aboriginals and apologies should been mentioned to the aboriginals for “certain issues” but not for the stolen generations which he thinks is fake.
So i certainly believe he made this comment as a smoke screen to his racist disgust that a centre left government was finally in power and was trying amend our countries sins against aboriginals.
I do believe this comment about “certain issues” was fake and that he truly believes the aboriginals deserve nothing as he is a pathetic racist coward.
If anyone out there especially one his loyal redneck conservative followers can prove me wrong by showing me where he is showing any sign of sympathy or apology for aboriginals i would certainly be interested to see it as i think the “certain issues” he thinks aboriginals are due an apology for is total bulls##t as he like most of his followers are redneck racist rubbish. I very much doubt anyone can show me anything other than Andrew being anything other than a pathetic racist
coward.
Maybe he should move to Texas with other redneck conservatives and succumb to ’slight gusts of wind’ that tend to become more and more severe each year for no reason at all…
Maybe you should read up on your history and you will discover what happened to Galveston in 1900 from a far worse hurricane. The only reason why houston became the main city was because the main city in 1900, Galveston was wiped off the face of the earth in 1900 from the worst natural disaster to ever hit the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galveston_Hurricane_of_1900
It is totally idiotic to be trying to link hurricanes over the last decade to global warming. Your comment demonstrates why the tag religion is associated with climate Change fanatics like you.
Bernie is enjoying his moderation except for a few asking why his blog is effectively dead:
“Imagine if Andrew got his own TV show…
Savour that thought.
It could be a bit like Media Watch but less ABC bias and more interesting (not that they don’t get stuck into the ABC sometimes – but primarily for not acting like they think the ABC should act).
To use Rudd’s theme, he could call it Watch-watch… watch. While I think of it, someone needs to suggest to the PM that we establish a ClimateWatch instead of the ETS – it would do profoundly less damage to the economy and waste a lot less money!
Rob of Brisbane (Reply)
Tue 16 Sep 08 (05:43pm”
“It is totally idiotic to be trying to link hurricanes over the last decade to global warming. Your comment demonstrates why the tag religion is associated with climate Change fanatics like you.”
Rad, i actually agree with you on this one, but not in the way you might imagine.
Using a few years of bad weather to prove that climate change is increasing storm frequency and severity is like…trying to use a carefully selected set of cooler years to prove that GW is not happening. (*)
Hang on. Isn’t that what you are here defending, Rad?
Your blindness to this hypocracy demonstartes why the tag religion is associated with climate change fanatics like you.
Spark, It may well be that AGW is increasing the severity and number of storms, but it could equally be the perception of increased storm activity due a boom in population in storm affected areas, or perhaps substandard ‘Mc Mansion’ construction methods and materials mean more houses are damaged in less severe storms.It could simply be due to natural fluctuations.
As much as i hope this is the case, i share your concerns about this being a result of climate change.
(*)http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_seven_graphs_to_end_the_warming_hype/
Using a few years of bad weather to prove that climate change is increasing storm frequency and severity is like…trying to use a carefully selected set of cooler years to prove that GW is not happening. (*)
Your argument is flawed because we have not had an unusual few years of increasing storm frequency. As the Galveston hurricane of 1900 (along with several other major hurricanes in the first decade of the 20th century) shows, the current batch of hurricanes is normal. There has been NO change in hurricane strength or frequency over the last few centuries.
So you cannot compare those that highlight the change in global temperatures over the last decade to NO change in hurricane frequency over the last 200 years.
Try again DbD.
Deveny quotes Bertrand Russell in today’s Age: “Fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”
Couldn’t help but think of our resident bolt-stroker…
RobJ
16 September, 2008 at 9:20 am
(1) You have misquoted me, whether deliberately or “accidentally.” My comment did not include the sentence “What a crock of bigoted shit!” as you claim it did.
(2) I don’t buy your lame argument that you prefer to grab my comments and scurry off here to dissect them because any response you made on the forum where I originally posted them “would probably be censored by the biased moderators .”
As anyone who reads the comments as assiduously as you seem to (seriously – you got at least as far as page 8 of Fri/Sat’s comment thread?) would see, plenty of negative responses to my comments get printed, both the well-reasoned and well-thought-out ones (like Matthew of Canberra’s) and the content-free ad-homs (like “Anon” down the page a bit).
No hard feelings on either side here I hope, but you don’t do yourself any favors (a) misquoting Bolt commenters or (b) playing the “dissent silenced!!!” card where not warranted.
Cheers.
DbD have you been posting under the name of Ashelighhh again?!
@ Dave
“you can admire Christians without being a Christian, as any non-Christian supporter of Barack Obama or non-Hindu fan of Gandhi could work out.”
I believe [could be wrong here] that Bolt is very choosy in the christianity he supports. For instance he won’t have a bar of the social gospel or liberal variety but goes off the deep end when any fundie is mentioned.
Bolt loves George Pell – even though Pell is an incompetent prick when it comes to handling cases of sexual abuse… Oh that’s right, Bolt tried to imply that because the victim was an adult male then it wasn’t so bad (this was on Q&A) – I wonder if he’d say the same about an adult female? Of course not!! He’s rather sexist too, just check his caveman opinions on women serving in the police service.
off topic.
the appeal of sarah palin, conservative viagra for timmy and andy and their rwdb cohort appears to be deflating faster than a non-viagra’d enhancement.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/palins-favorability-numbers-eroding.html
i originally thought palin was like pauline hansen but lately i reckon she more like mark latham. she has some political nouse but the more people are exposed to her and the more she shoots her mouth off the more you see what a fraud she is and the more she frightens the horses with her extreme and flaky views. palin’s favourability rating has sunk 16 points in 6 days.
the latest realclearpolitics poll also show republicans only achieved a post convention bounce of 2.9% in the polls, when dems got 6.4% bounce from their convention. it’s narrowing and yet mccain still looks like an empty vessell with no policies and the ones he has mentioned are scary – his health care insurance policy is very scary given the financial meltdown over there.
the appeal of sarah palin, conservative viagra for timmy and andy and their rwdb cohort appears to be deflating faster than a non-viagra’d enhancement
You have got to be joking confessions. Have you seen who commissioned the Poll?
The Research 2000 poll for Daily Kos now has Palin’s favorability-unfavorability scores at 45-44 — just a +1. Six days ago, when the poll, launched, she was at a 52-35, a +17.
This research Poll was done for the same blog site that ran that trashy rumour about palin’s son Trig being her daughter’s child.
This poll is SO bias it isn’t even funny.
I wonder who reasearch 2000 polled for daily Kos’s anti palin poll? The audience at Michael Moore’s latest Doco film?
ah rad how did i know you’d fling back the predictable “bias, bias, bias” cause it’s results you don’t agree with. if nothing else you are predictable.
lol!!
A Boltard crying bias – LOL indeed
“Chris Pyne a “sound” performer?! Ironically, the thing I can’t stand about him is the *sound* that he makes. That affected nasally Downeresque private school whine is unbearable”
Its worse than anything Downer could ever muster up. I remember when I first saw Christopher Pyne on Lateline a few years back and thought to myself that this individual was the epitome of a parody of a smarmy, sleazy, slimy politician and that surely this guy cant be for real. Its not just that nasally whiny, scum-bag politician voice, but the words that come out, and the absurdly parody-worthy forced attempts at humour that he engages in.
Chris Pyne as a real politician is an example of one of those instance is life, where reality trumps any absurdly exaggerated parody that anyone could dream up. How anyone could tolerate that sound that he makes is beyond me.
Mannnnnnn – you’re harsh – all sorts of people have all sorts of strange/annoying/funny voices – I’ve had people tell me my voice is horrible, annoying (pricks don’t hold back!!) I’ve had people (not many) tell me it’s sexy..
Seriously Chris, there’s plenty to dislike about all sorts of people, but just bear in mind we don’t choose our voice and it’s impractical to put on a ‘less annoying’ voice just to placate the intolerant…
ah rad how did i know you’d fling back the predictable “bias, bias, bias” cause it’s results you don’t agree with. if nothing else you are predictable
Dude, you can not be serious. Rad is right. Dailykos has no credibility when it comes to Palin. It is clear that they hate her by the way they tried to slime her with that story about her kids.
“Dailykos has no credibility ”
Nor does Bolt but rad constantly defends him, Bolt is biased, Rad doesn’t seem to notice…..
“It is clear that they hate her by the way they tried to slime her with that story about her kids.”
Like the Boltards hatred for Whitlam..
For Rad to stick up for Bolt and then accuse others of bias is as hypocritical as it is laughable…
“Dude, you can not be serious. Rad is right.”
except that someone who defends bolt and his deluded rantings can’t possibly claim bias when it suits them without being ridicule. and besdies similar decline in palins favourability will also be seen in other polls – to be published. so whether you agree with dkos or not, it doesn’t appear that the poll is biased enough to be dismissed outright.
“It is clear that they hate her by the way they tried to slime her with that story about her kids”
from my memory (hazy now) all dkos did was repeat a rumour that had come from another source. how is that any different from andy and timmy smearing catherine deveny with mental illness, or timmy posting personal details about jeremy and his breakup? again, play the slime card if you want, but if your prepared to turn a blind eye to slime and smear your heroes might dish out to those you disagree with, you have no business taking the high moral ground when it comes to others doing the same thing to people you agree with.
confessions.. you can add to the list Bolt’s “reporting” of the Aboriginal Affairs Minister staying on a ‘luxury’ boat, because she did not want to stay on land on Cape York.
He blatently copied another news reporter’s story with the usual inclusions and let the mob of sheep loose. Of course it came to light that the story was B-S. The reporter admitted an error but Bolt does not mention the slur or correct his column.
as well that story about aboriginal bush foods at that council meeting, and how bolt didn’t even site the original report correctly.
“How anyone could tolerate that sound that he makes is beyond me.”
It cuts both ways though doesn’t it?
Listening to Julia Gillard’s voice is like drinking sand.
Bob Hawke’s wasn’t much better.
Downer had that school headmasterish thing going on, but at least he was like that. Downer spoke as he acted and looked.
Chris Pyne is just bizarre.
Gillard’s voice might be off-putting to some but at least what comes out is some of the most intelligent stuff to be heard from any politician amongst the current batch.
And get used to it – you’re hearing the voice of someone that will likely become the first female prime minister of oz.
Downer was and is a Knobend.
What have knobends ever done to you to insult them so?
My favourite Downer moment was his “I speak French….” brain-fart.
Daics I agree, listening to Gillard speak is very difficult, despite the fact that I do agree with a lot of what she says. I just dont think anyone comes close to Pyne’s voice though, which I think is largely relfective of his personality. As for Downer, his tone and accent are a highly emblematic of his type of upringing and family connections. I say this despite seeing him as one of my more favored Liberals out of the whole bunch.
except that someone who defends bolt and his deluded rantings can’t possibly claim bias when it suits them without being ridicule
I have never defended any poll result where the poll was commissioned by Bolt. So there are no comparisons to be made. When I do then you will have a point.
and besdies similar decline in palins favourability will also be seen in other polls – to be published.
As in future tense, yet to be seen or proven. Given that, it is wrong for you to be saying it as a past tense certainty. Especially when you are using a poll which was commissioned by a Blog site which has decided to destroy Palin’s reputation.
from my memory (hazy now) all dkos did was repeat a rumour that had come from another source
Not only was it a rumour, but is was blatant deception. It is clear that dailykos did NO verification or research before posting the rumour. It would not have taken much effort for them to discover that Palin’s daughter was already 6 moths pregnant. It is obvious that they were not interested in the truth. Their agenda was to use deception to destroy Palin’s reputation. Even Bolt and tim don’t stoop to those levels.
again, play the slime card if you want, but if your prepared to turn a blind eye to slime and smear your heroes might dish out to those you disagree with, you have no business taking the high moral ground when it comes to others doing the same thing to people you agree with.
Here we have you doing the very thing. You attack bolt for alleged smearing, yet you are willing to turn a blind eye to smear and deception from DailyKos. You have just destroyed your own reputation in that very sentence.
“As in future tense, yet to be seen or proven.”
if you opened my link you’d see they refer to other results that were yet to be made public.
“I have never defended any poll result where the poll was commissioned by Bolt”
please rad i hoped you had moved beyond these silly word games. you’ve dismss the dkos poll because you claim it is bias againts palin. fact: bolt is biased against many issues and people. fact: you continue to defend him. apples and apples rad not apples and peaches.
“Not only was it a rumour, but is was blatant deception. It is clear that dailykos did NO verification or research before posting the rumour. ”
again from memory their website said something like “we don’t normally repeat this sorta thing” or word that affect. the story has been removed now so we will never know for certain. i am not defending this behaviour, simply asking why this is any different from what andy and timmy do without blinking and why you dont seem to voice your anger about that. a few weeks ago it was me not you jarring timmy on this very blog for doing exactly the same thing to jeremy. you and daddy dave were the silent ones then rad (in fact d dave tried to defend timmy!) so why teh confected moral outrage now?
again from memory their website said something like “we don’t normally repeat this sorta thing” or word that affect
All that means is that DailyKos admit to lowering their standards to destroy palin’s reputation.
please rad i hoped you had moved beyond these silly word games. you’ve dismiss the dkos poll because you claim it is bias against palin.
The Poll has to be dismissed because dailyKos’s motive for doing the poll is questionable. Especially given that they have demonstrated that they are willing to lower their standards to smear and ruin her reputation.
This means you have to question their real motive for commisioning the poll.
a few weeks ago it was me not you jarring timmy on this very blog for doing exactly the same thing to jeremy. you and daddy dave were the silent ones then rad (in fact d dave tried to defend timmy!) so why teh confected moral outrage now?
Don’t involve me in that. I remained silent because it is rare that I read Tim’s blog.
bolt is biased against many issues and people.
This is different because there is actual evidence that proves DailyKos’s post about Palin was lies. It is true that Bolt is bias, but he would not post a deceptive smear against someone that is very easily proven to be a lie with basic investigation.
The fact that they have removed all traces of the post from their blog site, demonstrates the deceptive nature of the original post.
“This is different because there is actual evidence that proves DailyKos’s post about Palin was lies. It is true that Bolt is bias, but he would not post a deceptive smear against someone that is very easily proven to be a lie with basic investigation.”
rad you can’t be serious! haven’t you been following the posts here about bolt and his lies about agw???!!!! and that smear about catherine deveny and the jenny macklin on the boat smear were also very easily disproven with basic investigation. was there an apology from andy for that? no. he allowed his smears to remain unanswered and unapologised for on his blog which in a way is much worse than just removing the offensive piece altogeteher. does andy admit that he isn’t an expert on climate change? no. he persists with his laymen attempt at interpreting graph and blatant lies even when readers point to his failings.
“Don’t involve me in that.”
then stop this confected moral outrage over who said what about palin and isn’t the left bias bastards. for as long as you continue to post this crap i will continue to keep reminding you that such behaviour is trotted out in equal measure from the right.
“It is true that Bolt is bias, but he would not post a deceptive smear against someone that is very easily proven to be a lie with basic investigation.”
Wouldn’t he Rad?
What about when he was sued for slandering magistrate Jelena Popovic?
“Supreme Court judge Bernard Bongiorno… in ruling that Bolt had not acted reasonably… and, in evidence given during the trial, showed he did not care whether or not the article was defamatory.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Bolt#Defamation_case
More of Justice Bongiorno on Andrew Bolt…
“Disingenous and misleading”
“At worst, dishonest and misleading and at best, grossly careless.”
Guys, why are you bothering? Rad is in denial or just being plain dishonest. He’s either a troll or a fool, or both. You’re wasting your time…
rad you can’t be serious! haven’t you been following the posts here about bolt and his lies about agw???!!!!
Bolt’s points on AGW are not lies. They are all part or the overall scientific debate. Just because some scientist’s dispute other scientist’s finding, it doesn’t make it lies.
Confessions have you heard of the scientific principle of falsification? As long as there is still unanswered questions then the original scientific theory is exposed to being falsified. To say that any opposing scientific theory is lies is moronic.
and that smear about catherine deveny and the jenny macklin on the boat smear were also very easily disproven with basic investigation. was there an apology from andy for that?
I am under the impression that deveny never disputed not saying that. As for jenny macklin, I not sure what you are talking about. I don’t ever recall Bolt posting an article on her.
does andy admit that he isn’t an expert on climate change?
Oh Please. That’s lame and you know it. Bolt links to reputable experts on his blog. Bolt has never claimed to be an expert.
then stop this confected moral outrage over who said what about palin and isn’t the left bias bastards. for as long as you continue to post this crap i will continue to keep reminding you that such behaviour is trotted out in equal measure from the right
Don’t be silly confessions. The Palin smear has been proven beyond all doubt to be a lie. Given the nature of the smear, most people would be offended at the notion that someone would claim that another person’s mentally challenged was not heirs, but their teenage child’s.
Even if the smear was about someone else, it would be offensive.
^^ Told you ;o) ^^
The Poll has to be dismissed because dailyKos’s motive for doing the poll is questionable.
Obviously I’m no fan of Matt, but he’s right in this instance. I want Palin to be exposed as a hollow and dangerous gimmick as much as the next liberal but I hardly think that DKos commissioned polls are trustworthy in this regard. Matt is a hypocrite – we all know he would fail to identify similar bias in polls that report findings that he approves of – but that doesn’t make him wrong in this instance.
My hope is that the McCain/Palin candidacy will degenerate into a joke as we get closer to the election. The Mccain campaign is already struggling to keep Palin quarantined from the media and I reckon the American people will soon realise that they are being asked to buy a relatively unknown VP ‘sight unseen’. If she was the political weapon that the GOP wants their supporters to believe she is then they wouldn’t be shielding her from media and public scrutiny the way they are.
Palin will be a liability for the Republicans and they know it. They’re desperate to keep her away from serious scrutiny until after the election.
True enough.
But they have time (orlack of it) on their side. Over six months, Palin would probably be exposed and discredited. As it is, she might limp through. Incidents like this – “the verbiage that Senator McCain chose to use” – won’t harm her much yet, as the Rebuplicans can play it as the evil liberal media attacking her.
In the mean time, she role will be to appeal to the Christian right, something that her questionable suitability wont’ much affect.
But they have time (orlack of it) on their side. Over six months, Palin would probably be exposed and discredited. As it is, she might limp through. Incidents like this – “the verbiage that Senator McCain chose to use” – won’t harm her much yet, as the Rebuplicans can play it as the evil liberal media attacking her
My personal feeling is that the biggest mistake that Obama made was not picking Hilary as his VP. If he had, then I strongly believe that McCain would not have picked palin as she cannot compare to Hilary.
I also believe that if Obama looses, then the democrats need to have a good hard look at themselves and ask the question; “Why was Hilary not chosen as the VP or Presidential nominee, given that she commanded 18 million votes and is more experienced that any of the 4 candidates currently running.
Hilary would have made a fantastic president. Far better than Obama and McCain.
Incidents like this – “the verbiage that Senator McCain chose to use” – won’t harm her much yet, as the Rebuplicans can play it as the evil liberal media attacking her.
So true Michael. And boy haven’t they run with that narrative, much to the glee of die-hard GOP lovers like Bolt and Blair.
It still amazes me, though, that so many on the right (including many of our trolls here) have danced to the McCain campaign’s tune on Palin despite knowing absolutely nothing about her. Every effort by the independent media to uncover information about Palin is instinctively rejected by these clowns as biased – as though the campain releases which they prefer to rely on are somehow likely to be more objective?!!?
Absolutely unmitigated idiots, the lot of them.
Aren’t they even a little bit curious to see how she holds up to independent scrutiny? Are they so blind to their own partisanship that they don’t realised that they have formed a view of a politician based solely on information drip fed to them by an election campaign?
Aren’t they even a little bit curious to see how she holds up to independent scrutiny?
I am more than happy to see how palin holds up to individual scrutiny. The problem is that the first wave of media scrutiny was deceptive, motive driven and totally scandalous. It is obvious that the media were desperate to get dirt on her and were prepared to stop at nothing to do it. The stories about her son Trig and the sacking of her brother-in-law were prime examples.
I saw an interview with her ex-brother-in-law on CNN and given his record as a state trooper, it is no wonder he was sacked. He openly admitted to using a tazer gun on his 13 year old step son as well as drinking alcohol in his quad car. Added to this is the discipline history that he openly admitted to. So why on earth are the media going after this?
It’s like the boy that cried wolf. As far as palin is concerned, the media have shot them selves in the foot.
Are they so blind to their own partisanship that they don’t realised that they have formed a view of a politician based solely on information drip fed to them by an election campaign
The same can easily be said about those that attack palin on her experience while fully supporting Obama. They are more than happy to question the level of experience palin has to be VP but they are so partisan that they are more than happy to over look Obama’s lack of experience. Especially considering that he is running for a higher level of office than palin.
Egad! Check out Bolt’s stand-in, Bernie (I’d pay a lot not to have to spend a weekend with him – especially if he’s alive) and his range of topics and the slant taken. Really highlights the groupthink nature of Andy’s Blog. It’s just a Liberal Party (Non-) ThinkTank.
blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/macklin_cant_even_stay_one_night/
False slur on Macklin for Rad to read to see how crap Bolt is at journalism.
A couple of comments on the DailyKos stuff:
- In terms of the Palin baby rumour – what gets lost in the way people talk about this is that this information was posted in a diary on DailyKos, not by one of the site editors. The site is not simply a blog in which a limited number of people post information – anyone can create an account and post diaries to the site. Anyone is then free to comment on it – as many people did on the Palin rumour-mongering, telling the author it was silly to post such a claim on flimsy evidence. So, to blame Kos or his site for the diary would be just as nonsensical as blaming BlairBoltWatch for a comment made by Rad Pipper, or by me, or by anyone else.
- Regarding the polls, I think tracking polls are pretty limited in their usefulness anyway, especially in the United States (where a national average is never terribly informative because of the electoral college system). So, I think the polls are prone to error and limited in their usefulness – that’s all tracking polls, not just this one. But to suggest it can automatically be regarded as biased doesn’t make sense either. The poll is commissioned by DailyKos but carried out by a polling company, Research 2000. I don’t know in detail the methodology of their polls – I read here that it is based on 1,100 likely voters, but don’t have much more information. But I’d like someone who automatically dismisses it as biased to explain how and based on what evidence they arrive at that conclusion.
So, to blame Kos or his site for the diary would be just as nonsensical as blaming BlairBoltWatch for a comment made by Rad Pipper, or by me, or by anyone else.
This really ought to go without saying. Although, to be fair, this site often has a go at Bolt based on the comments he allows to appear on his threads. There is an element of hypocricy in this defence, even though it is an entirely valid defence.
Regardless – it is utterly moronic to use the DailyKos incident as a reason to completely dismiss all media commentary on Palin in favour of material released by the McCain campaign, as so many on the Right appear to have done. They aren’t just drinking the GOP Kool-Aid, they’re embarking on an all Kool-Aid diet!
But I’d like someone who automatically dismisses it as biased to explain how and based on what evidence they arrive at that conclusion.
I’ll have a go, since I have automatically dismissed it.
For me it is not a question of whether the poll is biased or not, as this is a factual question that can only really be resolved through unfettered access to the polling brief, methodology and results (something that I will never have). The poll could be completely accurate for all I know. Instead, for me, it is a question of whether I judge the source to be one that has a reason to engage in biased polling. Does the entity commissioning the polling have an agenda or doesn’t it? I guess I see dKos as a partisan political player with a vested interest in promoting a particular position (the alliteration in this sentence is accidental I assure you). You can’t seriously deny that Kos has a pro-Democrat agenda.
It’s exactly the same reason I wouldn’t trust a poll commissioned by Fox News. I suspect you wouldn’t either Tobias.
DeanL its not just Bolt’s site, compare the sites of people like Blair, Akerman and Bolt, and less conspicuous useless clowns like Slatts, and you can easily observe that the content is pretty much the same regurgitated stuff across the lot of them, presented in slightly different degrees of idiocy and vitriol. These sites, and their usual contributors, pretty much represent one giant useless blob of knee-jerked, group-thinking ideological servitude, lack of individual thought, and mindless sloganeering
Ah Slattsey’s taken over at Bolt’s site, that will elevate the level of discussion over there I’m sure. One only needs to read the first column on Slattsey’s own website, which starts off with him blurting “Muslim extremists — and their left wing supporters in the West”, to immediately recognise what a brainless idiot this guy is.
“Different degrees of idiocy”
Chris of Brisbane
18 September, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Is this the title of Bolt’s next book?
Mondo,
Re the comments issue, the distinction I would make is that DailyKos has a philosophy of open debate and not moderating, modifying or removing content (resulting from constitutionally guaranteed free speech, weaker defamation laws, etc. in the USA) while comments are moderated before they appear on Bolt’s blog. When I criticise comments on Bolt’s blog, it is normally because comments targeted at certain issues, people or groups are allowed through, while similarly worded comments in the opposite direction are not (or they are cut, or even modified without notice, as we saw recently).
I think many of the comments on Bolt’s blog are moronic, and the Palin diary on DailyKos and the comments agreeing with it were equally so. But as long as everyone has an equal right to tell people when you think they are completely wrong, that’s fine.
With the polling, I would be sceptical of any poll result on its own, and I agree with you that I would like to know all the details of the methodology. But I wouldn’t dismiss the DailyKos poll or a Fox News poll out of hand – instead, I would be keeping an eye on the results over time to see whether there is evidence of bias, e.g., does it consistently give results that differ from other polls in a specific direction? It’s too soon to tell on the tracking polls DailyKos has commissioned.
“Bolt’s points on AGW are not lies. They are all part or the overall scientific debate. Just because some scientist’s dispute other scientist’s finding, it doesn’t make it lies.”
i know i will regret this (nods in agreement with robj’s comment), but here goes. bolt lies about agw. his ‘disagreement’ with the science has gone beyond debate. deanl, that scientist from QIMR, barry brook and others who have commented on his blog have all pointed out discrepancies in his interpretation, representation and commentary about agw especial graphs. to commit these errors is forgivable given bolt is not a scientist but even when his mistakes are pointed out to him he continues to post the same errors. this is tantamount to being untruthful. at the very least he can acknowledge his posts with the fact that he is not an expert, you only have to read the comments from his sheep to see there are many who think he is. at most he is treating those who disagree with him with the kind of automatically saying “no” kinda religious mania he accuses the pro-agw crowd of. is this healthy sceptism? no. it is dogma. perhaps you should ask bolt if he’s heard of falsification.
as to the dkos bias and polling and stuff, what TZ said.
But I wouldn’t dismiss the DailyKos poll or a Fox News poll out of hand – instead, I would be keeping an eye on the results over time to see whether there is evidence of bias, e.g., does it consistently give results that differ from other polls in a specific direction?
Which is good advice, of course. However in the absence of a historical record of DKos polling results measured against actual outcomes I cannot attribute much weight to the recent Palin poll.
Bottom line for me is that unless the polling data comes from a reputable independent organisation I can’t put much faith in it – unless a historical record of accuracy exists as per your suggestion.
BTW – does a historical record exist for dKos polling data?
“Egad! Check out Bolt’s stand-in, Bernie”
trying to be charitable about bernie the only thing i can say is he’s not very bright. yesterday he had some superficial comment about kerry o’brien going soft on turnball – no evidence to substantate this just a few insinuations to fire up the sheep. today it’s strogonoff man and his wife with bernie trying to conjure up another belinda neil. talk about smear – nothing to say about this rad? i thought pollies familes were off limits, or is that only for sarah palin and those you agree with?
Sarah Palin loves the mentally handicapped disfigured disabled children.Once she comes out of her nuclear bunker from the war with Russia that she thinks is a good idea . She can have sex with her husband and they can create all the mentally handicapped disfigured disabled children she can produce.Thats if she survives the intense radiation from over 10,000 ICBM’s exploding over various cities and military targets in multiple countries and from the certain destruction she wishes for all mankind(including all the innocent children she wishes to kill).
All this to defend a far away nation that started a war with Russia by killing innocent civilians in South Ossetia. They claim Russia is a tryant.Yes Russia is a tryant but no more than any other aggressive nuclear superpower. How many countries does Russia occupy with its citizens disapproval the only answer would most likely be Chechnya.The US has far more nations that hate their occupation and military bases in their countries. Nations occupied like Iraq, Afghanistan and with others with bases in countries like South Korea where most of its citizens wish to see the back Uncle Sam aka the Grim reaper. If you think my comments are cruel STIFF.
I dont wish death upon the entire worlds population from a suicidal notion of defending an aggressive nation like Georgia. Sarah Palin does not care for her own and the rest of the worlds children if she wishes to attack Russia.
And before i get accused of being against conseravtives i would feel the same against to Obama if he wished
his own suicide to attack Russia for the defence of an aggressive nation like Georgia.
er, what?
With Bolt away, the Hun has let Bernard Slattery take over the site to keep the punters happy. I don’t think this post will be getting a run though.
Hey Bernie,
Intersting to see Bolt has left his blog to you for a few days. Do you think your old blog postings may get you in a bit of hot water?
Like calling Madonna an “offensive, talentless slut”?
What about your gay jokes? You know the one about the cottage industry.
And more racism: “extremist Mussies chaining themselves to the cat food delivery van . . .”
And your Jewish jokes aren’t funny either.
And what were you thinking making this quote, “Fantastic, now I can blame the bloody Mussies next time some dopey hippy excuses abysmal personal hygiene or stunning bad manners because “he’s a Leo, you know”
And you insult Adelaide people as well.
As you can only put in two links, I link the bit about you taking the piss out of Caroline Springs residents later.
WTF?
“If you think my comments are cruel STIFF.”
Is this the Debbie from ‘Debbie Does Dallas?”
No – the site only started reporting polling data a week ago, so it’s far too soon to say much. At the moment its results might be leaning slightly more toward Obama (e.g., today’s DailyKos/Research2000 tracking poll is 49-43 while Gallup is 48-44), but the methodology is also different (Research2000 polls likely voters, Gallup polls registered voters). I would definitely advise waiting and seeing – but I’d never rely too much on a single tracking poll anyway.
One more thing to note with the polling – the trend in at least one other measure of Sarah Palin’s favourability shows she is heading downhill quickly.
i think that was mentioned in the 538 website TZ.
possum linked to this site the other day. pretty flash. can someone tell me what twitters or tweets are but?
http://www.perspctv.com/#charts
more bad news polling data coming out about palin presence on the rep ticket.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/17/MNB912V3J8.DTL&hw=field+poll&sn=002&sc=811
TZ / Confessions.. further poll results:
http://www.theage.com.au/world/palin-effect-losing-its-momentum-20080918-4je1.html?page=-1
Basically stating that Palin only appeals to Republican voters. Preaching to the converted.
Once again confessions, that poll really doesn’t tell us anything.
The poll was conducted in california which the democrats won in 200 and 2004 elections.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_2004
What really counts in the US elections are swing states like Florida.
Here is a much better source for an insight into how the election is really going. It demonstrates that in the key states that will decide this election the Polls are much closer, indicating a cliff hanger election. Like 2000, it could come down to Florida, which has McCain and Obama both on 46%.
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/
What is interesting to note that in Ohio, which is another Key state McCain is now ahead by 6%;
We have just updated a flurry of polls by American Research Group and according to them, McCain is ahead by 6% in Ohio. They have yet to release September results for Florida and Pennsylvania. The consensus of pollsters show that McCain is ahead in Florida so as we stated yesterday, Pennsylvania is currently the bullwark state Obama must win to avoid a 3-state big swing state sweep by McCain.
What’s worse for Obama is that according to American Research Group, McCain is ahead in some of the other contested states: Colorado, North Carolina — albeit by just 2% in CO.
more bad news polling data coming out about palin presence on the rep ticket.
Once again confessions, that poll really doesn’t tell us anything. The poll was conducted in california which the democrats won in the 2000 and 2004 US elections.
What really counts in the US elections are swing states like Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania.
Here is a much better source for an insight into how the election is really going. It demonstrates that in the key states that will decide this election the Polls are much closer, indicating a cliff hanger election. Like 2000, it could come down to Florida, which has McCain and Obama both on 46%.
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/
What is interesting to note that in Ohio, which is another Key state McCain is now ahead by 6%;
We have just updated a flurry of polls by American Research Group and according to them, McCain is ahead by 6% in Ohio. They have yet to release September results for Florida and Pennsylvania. The consensus of pollsters show that McCain is ahead in Florida so as we stated yesterday, Pennsylvania is currently the bullwark state Obama must win to avoid a 3-state big swing state sweep by McCain.
What’s worse for Obama is that according to American Research Group, McCain is ahead in some of the other contested states: Colorado, North Carolina — albeit by just 2% in CO.
rad the polls will probably be very close and i expect them to narrow the closer they get to their election date. however we were not discussing the 2 parties but palin in particular. (and i know my earlier link is in california.) the point as dam buster says is that palins appeal only seems to be to the converted, ie those that will already vote republican. even in california which is a democrat state.
(and i know my earlier link is in california.) the point as dam buster says is that palins appeal only seems to be to the converted, ie those that will already vote republican. even in california which is a democrat state.
It is rather too simplistic and an over generalisation to be coming to that conclusion from the results of a poll conducted in a state like California which is the democratic heartland. The true test and impact of Palin on this election comes from the swing states that will decide this election.
The best was to judge this is to look at polling in states like Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Colorado and Nth Carolina. In these states compare the polling for McCain before Palin’s VP was announced with polling taken today.
Who cares what independent voters in California think of Palin when their vote has zero impact on the result of the 2008 election.
What is showing is that before Palin, McCain was trailing in the key states, after Palin McCain is now in front in a high percentage of these states.
Rad – Read the link I put up.
part of the report:
Another new poll, a Reuters-Zogby survey taken over the weekend amid rumours of the impending financial crash, gave Senator Obama a 2% lead nationally over Senator McCain at 47% to 45%. That wiped out a 5% lead enjoyed by the Republican a month ago.
A poll of five key battleground states also found the candidates in a virtual tie.
The CNN/Time Magazine/Opinion Research Corporation poll shows a dead heat in Republican-held Florida, with each candidate supported by 48% of registered voters.
In Ohio, also won by President Bush in 2004, Senator Obama leads 49% to 47%, a difference well within the poll’s margin of error.
Senator McCain led Senator Obama by six points in Indiana (where Mr Bush won by 20 points in 2004) and by one point in North Carolina (Mr Bush won by 12 points).
Senator Obama holds a three-point lead in Wisconsin (where Senator Kerry won by less than a point in 2004).
Rad – Read the link I put up
I have read the link from the age that you posted.
Have you read the link that I have posted?
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/
It is a much more reliable source as it relies on most of the Polls that are taken. Unlike the Age which is only relying on a couple of polls. Now you can stick to what the Age is claiming but I prefer to rely on the more comprehensive web site USA Election Polls.
This is what the USA Election Polls website states:
We have just updated a flurry of polls by American Research Group and according to them, McCain is ahead by 6% in Ohio. They have yet to release September results for Florida and Pennsylvania. The consensus of pollsters show that McCain is ahead in Florida so as we stated yesterday, Pennsylvania is currently the bullwark state Obama must win to avoid a 3-state big swing state sweep by McCain.
What’s worse for Obama is that according to American Research Group, McCain is ahead in some of the other contested states: Colorado, North Carolina — albeit by just 2% in CO.
BTW – This is what they say about the CNN Poll which the Age is using;
CNN has Obama doing much better in a flurry of states. Democrats will maintain that this means Obama is making a comeback but it could just be as easy as a bias in CNN’s methodology. For example, Survey USA has McCain up 6% in Florida while CNN has Obama up by 4%. Survey USA, however, of all pollsters have shown McCain doing the best
Rad – Yes I looked at the link you provided. They also said Obama would not win the primaries in the next paragraph:
“So if American Research Group is correct, then things look pretty grim for Obama. But we should mention that it was American Research Group that failed miserably in gauging Obama’s level of support in the primaries”
and if you click
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/general-election/electoral-college-results.html
you will see they have Obama 268 vs McCain 249
Rad – Yes I looked at the link you provided. They also said Obama would not win the primaries in the next paragraph
That was when compared with a fellow democrat.
Look, I’m not saying that McCain is a sure fire chance to win the election. What I am saying is that it is wrong to be making assumptions about Palin’s effectiveness for the republicans from polls taken in states like California on the thoughts of independent voters. Especially given that California is a state that the democrats a almost guaranteed to win anyway. Also with so many conflicting Polls showing vastly different results for the swing states for both candidates it would be wrong to say that these polls indicate what voters think of Palin.
The real test will come on election day. Especially when you consider that before palin was announced, Obama was leading and it looked like he was certain to win this election. Compare that to today, where it is a very close race and either party can win.
“Reaper
15 September, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Um… I know no one really cares but according to Catholic Dogma (and reiterated by Pope John Paul II) the idea that Catholicism demands conversion unless you want to be judged for all eternity in Hell is wrong. Can’t speak for the other 40,000 or so other christian religions and cults though.
If anyone actualy cares I can give you more details…”
Reaper, you are wrong. I have had a reluctant association with Catholicism for 55 years, and I know what I’m talking about. Catholicism teaches that you will go to hell if you are not a Catholic. Sure, it offers all sorts of caveats and clever sophistry to mask it, but the teaching essentially boils down to this: that Jesus Christ – the only begotten Son of God, instituted the Catholic Church, that it is the One True Church of God, and that all who die outside of it cannot be saved.
So Bolt is even wrong about this, as well as everything else.
I for one am glad that Rad Pipper/Mighty Matt keeps trolling this blog. When you have sometimes hundreds of posts to get through, it really helps to have so many that you can just skim over – RP/MM’s, and all those who are foolish enough to respond to him. I have limited time to read the blog, so I’m deeply grateful for your contributions.
Amazingly enough I think Matt’s made some valid points on this thread.
If he could limit his obvious tendancies to engage in mindless trolling, and if he could ever admit to the glaring inconsistencies in his positions, even after they have been pointed out to him, he might be a tolerable poster.
Rad Pipper
19 September, 2008 at 11:30 am
yes, i agree with everything you say. except that by linking these new polls specifically about palin, i am not trying to imply that the election will not be close, that teh democrates will win or that palin doesn’t continue to enjoy popularity among republican voters or voters in swing states. i am only highlighting this emerging data that suggest the novelty value of her is waning. and yes, more poll data is required to be able to conclusively say yes or no.
“Amazingly enough I think Matt’s made some valid points on this thread.”
he’s obviously more clearheaded talking about american politics than agw. lol!! but seriously the only reason i am engaging with him is because he has been reasonable of late. once the troll like behavior return i disengage.
Sustainable development – A contradiction in terms. We’re all whistling in the dark at the top of our lungs as the polar ice caps melt, and these fucking lunatics think if we just slow down a bit there’ll be time for them to make another million before the end of the world.
The only thing that could render human life sustainable for the future would be to block technological development, burn down housing developments, and develop an ecological defense movement with the guts to follow through on its conclusions.
Had to LOLz (’cause I know you hate it) at the comment top of page by Adam and responded to by Daics. Now remember, this blog is called “The Blair/Bolt Watch Project” and you braindead, leftiodal groupspeakers said, quote ”
“The less time we all spend thinking about bolt the better off we will all be.”
The most sensible thing yet posted on this site.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha what a bunch of hypocritical tools. Dang fellas, I was having a bad day until I read that gem. Thanks !!